F1EQ5 Le Bourget 1987 .. ?

[JollyJumper]

This EQ5 was displayed at Le Bourget/Paris Air Show 1987.
It is either 4560 or 4561.
But which ?
Perhaps somebody who has a clue is around and can say something.
~

[SEG]

Mirages F1EQ-5 had the serials 4560 to 4579.
The N° 4560 was the first prototype of the F1EQ-5 (Which was used to test the AM-39). I guess It could be the one on your picture, because the 4561 was painted in a desert camo


BUT...All the EQ-5 are known for having been delivered to Irak from 1983 to 1985. So : How could have she been in le bourget in 1987 ?
http://www.iraqimilitary.org/forums/vie ... p?f=7&t=68
Are you sure that she is an EQ-5 ? (Weapons in front are A2G leading more to EQ-4) (?)

[JollyJumper]

It is not that simple, unfortunately.
Of the 4560 to 4579, the last 9, 4571 to 4579 were all painted in Dark Blue/White scheme.
The dark blue color is also referred to as dark blue-grey, sea-grey and others... the Lela F1 book has "dark blue".
The 4561 was used in France until late 1987 for development/test work and only painted shortly before delivery.
In desert camo, I assume that too.
4560 was one of the main development aircraft of the EQ5 and subsequently EQ6 standards. The other EQ6 development
aircraft was the modified EQ5 # 4562, painted desert camo right after construction.
These two aircraft, 4560 and 4562, never left France. There were a maximum of 18 F1EQ5 in Iraq.
I have got a much better photo of the aircraft displayed at Le Bourget (from a private source) which shows without doubt
that it is a EQ5

[SEG]

OK, you have better sources than me ;-)
What I find strange is to show commercialy an EQ-5, wich was anti surface dedicated, with a standard bomber loadout, which was more the role of an EQ-4 (?)
Perhaps you could be in touch with D.A to have a reply ?

[JollyJumper]

The EQ5 was not "dedicated" to anti-surface/anti-ship missions.
While they had the capability for this special mission and precision strike (with BLG-400/AS30L),
they were frequently used as normal bombers and in the tanker role as well.
I've emailed DA some time ago (via their web interface) but no reply ... maybe they are still digging through their archive :D

[garance]

In my memories only the EQ 6 were painted with the dark blue/ white and the "5" where sable/brown ?

[JollyJumper]

Dark blue/white scheme
EQ5
4571 to 4579 (all verified by either photo or report)
EQ6 (first order, 18 ac, 4600 to 4608, 4615 to 4623)
4601, 4602, and possibly several more of # 4603 to 4608 which are not known
EQ6 (second order, 12 ac, 4650 to 4655, 4660 to 4665, last 4 ac embargoed)
4651 which seems to be the only aircraft in dark blue/white of that order

[jojo]

De tête les EQ6 avaient aussi les point internes des ailes câblés pour emporter les Exocet, ce qui permettait d'en emporter 2.
Une fois reçu je pense que c'est naturellement eux qui étaient utilisé pour les missions anti-navires.

Maintenant ils n'avaient pas perdu le reste de leur capacités (Super 530F, pod laser, BGL, pod REMORA en brouillage etc...), pareil pour les EQ5.
Les EQ5 et EQ6 étaient particulièrement polyvalents pour l'époque.

[SEG]

I've emailed DA some time ago (via their web interface) but no reply ... maybe they are still digging through their archive :D

Well, 30 years ago...nobody is interested anymore right now (except forum's rats like us !!! )

[JollyJumper]

Yes.. the Mirage Arrow Rats ... wanting to know the unknowable ... total menace for DA !!!

[ex:Kaos]

Désolé, pas pu m'empêcher...

[JollyJumper]

De tête les EQ6 avaient aussi les point internes des ailes câblés pour emporter les Exocet, ce qui permettait d'en emporter 2.
Une fois reçu je pense que c'est naturellement eux qui étaient utilisé pour les missions anti-navires.

Maintenant ils n'avaient pas perdu le reste de leur capacités (Super 530F, pod laser, BGL, pod REMORA en brouillage etc...), pareil pour les EQ5.
Les EQ5 et EQ6 étaient particulièrement polyvalents pour l'époque.

Yes, particularly the EQ6 was a real multi-role "Strike Fighter" with improvements over the EQ5 which was quite good already.
Sherlock RWR and the, apparently never fully implemented, improved radar.
Just the engine was a bit on the weak side for hot & high conditions.

As for EQ6 with the capability to load two AM 39 ... I have a alternate theory...
So far, the only source (I think) for the two-AM 39 claim is the Lela book (which doesn't give detailed info on it).
Photography proof , so far, is EQ6 with a single AM 39 under the starboard wing.
What was the purpose of this configuration (AM 39 under the wing) ?
Were they going for more firepower with two AM 39 ... or were they going for increased range with one AM 39 on the starboard wing,
a RP 35 tank under the opposite wing and the RPL 201 on the fuselage... ?
I know that the EQ6 had a modified stores jettison system to handle asymmetrical configurations and selectively jettison the wing stations #1

Nothing new on the 4560/4561 topic, btw.

[jojo]

Were they going for more firepower with two AM 39 ... or were they going for increased range with one AM 39 on the starboard wing,
a RP 35 tank under the opposite wing and the RPL 201 on the fuselage... ?

Both can useful depending on situation, but it wouldn't be logical to wire only one wing.

[JollyJumper]

Yes.. but then.. the Super Etendard ... only one missile on the starboard wing.

[Miguel Garcia]

Dark blue/white scheme
EQ5
4571 to 4579 (all verified by either photo or report)
EQ6 (first order, 18 ac, 4600 to 4608, 4615 to 4623)
4601, 4602, and possibly several more of # 4603 to 4608 which are not known
EQ6 (second order, 12 ac, 4650 to 4655, 4660 to 4665, last 4 ac embargoed)
4651 which seems to be the only aircraft in dark blue/white of that order

Hey there Jolly!

4571 to 4579 were not all DBG camo, for example 4572 was not.
About 4603-4608 let me take a look in my database and I wil let you know.

regards!

Miguel

[JollyJumper]

Hello Miguel,

ahh.. and I thought that I had it all figured out...
Well good, some doubt always remained regarding 4572 - 4574.
Wrong info or Ive made a mistake, wouldnt be the first :D
4571 - evacuated to Iran and crashed there on 5 Jul 2001 - DBG scheme (one of only two DBG F1 evacuated to Iran)
4572 - two-tone camo, thats new
4573 - unknown
4574 - unknown
4575 to 4579 - Ive seen photos of all of them in various mags/books/www, all have the DBG scheme.

Thanks for your help and welcome to C6

[JollyJumper]

The EQ5 displayed at Le Bourget 1987. It is shown for a few seconds starting at 5:28

[jojo]

Les commentaires ne sont pas synchro avec les images
"this is the Mirage 2000" image = Mirage F1
"the Mirage F1 with in flight refuelling boom" Image = Hawk 200
"Alphajet" image = Harrier

[JollyJumper]

So... EQ5 4561 (ferried June '88) in fact got the blue / SuE camo scheme as well....
This remains interesting...

[JollyJumper]

Some related photos from Le Bourget 1985.
F1B 503 displayed with BGL 400 and Sycomor Pod - EQ5 equipment.
And F1CR 607 displayed with HAROLD recce pod and Remora ECM pod.
'Nice' airshow display configurations
Photos from SDASM (San Diego Air & Space Museum) flickr archive.

[Frenchie]

Super sujet ! L'article du fana et le livre "Les Heros de Bagdad" font remonter les souvenirs.
Petite question sur les conf' EQ5.
Y a t'il eu des conf incluant les Magic en bout d'aile sur des missions air sol. Je travaille sur la planification d'une peinture sur le sujet et mes sources photos semblent concorder : en conf air sol, pas de Magic. Mais un "pro" du F1 me dit l'inverse.

Pour ma part je voyais en mission AGL:
Starboard pod ECM & AS30L
Centerline pod laser
Port fuel tank & pod ECM

A++
V

[JollyJumper]

Magic missiles were standard equipment for all normal A/G missions. Exceptions could be the
very long-range missions, e.g. to Larak.
Photo below shows this a/c in AS 30 L configuration is equipped with Magic, taken after an emergency landing in Dhahran, KSA.
According to info by Dgé El Bi :
It was hit by MANPADS after getting too close to the target on Farsi Island.

[Frenchie]

Thanx JollyJumper. That's quite an interesting pic !

[JollyJumper]

A link posted by PP139 in another thread, and relevant to the F1EQ
https://henridewaubertdegenlis.wordpres ... emoignent/
(leads to part 1 of 3, seems to be the online version of the Le Fana article)
Site by Henri de Waubert, test pilot, and much involved with testing and developing the F1EQ.
http://henridewaubert.com/

[JollyJumper]

Update...
EQ5/6 with Dark Blue-Grey camo scheme:

13 aircraft, 6x EQ5 and 7x EQ6
EQ5
4561 (lowest number, but ac only painted DBG on request before delivery in June 1988)
4575 (first of the aircraft ordered with DBG camo scheme)
4576
4577
4578
4579

EQ6 (1st order)
4601
4602
4603
4604
4605
EQ6 (2nd order)
4650
4651