MC.202 ser.VIII: Questions / Réponses

[ClaudeJ]

MC.202 Series VIII : Questions / Réponses
Amphicabine:

C : collettore = Collecteur
B: benzina = Essence
O: olio = Huile
A: acqua = Eau
S: Sinistro = Gauche
D: Destra = Droite

Vidéo de familiarisation de Requiem:





Caractéristique:

Indicated stall speed in flight configuration: 151..166 km/h
Indicated stall speed in takeoff/landing configuration: 139..152 km/h
Dive speed limit: 850 km/h
Maximum load factor: 14.8 G
Stall angle of attack in flight configuration: 19.6 °
Stall angle of attack in landing configuration: 17.4 °

Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 500 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 543 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 5000 m, engine mode - Combat: 604 km/h

Service ceiling: 11300 m
Climb rate at sea level: 17.3 m/s
Climb rate at 3000 m: 15.1 m/s
Climb rate at 6000 m: 10.6 m/s

Maximum performance turn at sea level: 22.6 s, at 270 km/h IAS.
Maximum performance turn at 3000 m: 28.2 s, at 270 km/h IAS.

Flight endurance at 3000 m: 2.2 h, at 350 km/h IAS.

Takeoff speed: 160..190 km/h
Glideslope speed: 190..200 km/h
Landing speed: 140..150 km/h
Landing angle: 13.9 °

Note 1: the data provided is for international standard atmosphere (ISA).
Note 2: flight performance ranges are given for possible aircraft mass ranges.
Note 3: maximum speeds, climb rates and turn times are given for standard aircraft mass.
Note 4: climb rates are given for Combat power, turn times are given for Boosted power.

Engine:
Model: RA.1000
Maximum power in Boosted mode at sea level: 1175 HP
Maximum power in Combat mode at sea level: 1050 HP
Maximum power in Combat mode at 3700 m: 1100 HP

Engine modes:
Nominal (unlimited time): 2200 RPM, 1.23 ata
Combat power (up to 5 minutes): 2400 RPM, 1.35 ata
Boosted power (up to 1 minute): 2500 RPM, 1.45 ata

Water rated temperature in engine intake: 70..80 °C
Water rated temperature in engine output: 94 °C
Water maximum temperature in engine output: 100 °C
Oil rated temperature in engine intake: 60..75 °C
Oil maximum temperature in engine intake: 85 °C
Oil rated temperature in engine output: 90..100 °C
Oil maximum temperature in engine output: 110 °C

Supercharger gear shift altitude: fluid coupling

Empty weight: 2448 kg
Minimum weight (no ammo, 10% fuel): 2622 kg
Standard weight: 2967 kg
Maximum takeoff weight: 3197 kg
Fuel load: 307 kg / 430 l
Useful load: 749 kg

Forward-firing armament:
2 x 12.7mm machine gun "Breda SAFAT 12.7", 400 rounds, 700 rounds per minute, synchronized
2 x 7.7mm machine gun "Breda SAFAT 7.7", 500 rounds, 900 rounds per minute, wing-mounted (modification)
2 x 20mm gun "MG 151/20", 135 rounds, 700 rounds per minute, wing-mounted (modification)

Bombs:
2 x 50 kg general purpose bombs "50-T"
2 x 100 kg general purpose bombs "100-T"

Length: 8.85 m
Wingspan: 10.58 m
Wing surface: 16.8 m^2

Combat debut: June 1942

Additional airplane configurations list:


Breda SAFAT 7.7mm wing-mounted machineguns with 500 rounds per each
Additional mass: 49 kg
Ammunition mass: 24 kg
Guns mass: 25 kg
Estimated speed loss: 0 km/h

MG 151/20 20mm guns in wing-mounted gun pods with 135 rounds per each
Additional mass: 212 kg
Ammunition mass: 55 kg
Guns mass: 157 kg
Estimated speed loss: 15 km/h

2 x 55 kg General Purpose Bombs 50-T
Additional mass: 130 kg
Ammunition mass: 110 kg
Racks mass: 20 kg
Estimated speed loss before drop: 14 km/h
Estimated speed loss after drop: 7 km/h

100 kg General Purpose Bomb 100-T
Additional mass: 220 kg
Ammunition mass: 200 kg
Racks mass: 20 kg
Estimated speed loss before drop: 20 km/h
Estimated speed loss after drop: 7 km/h

Additional pilot protection: armoured triplex wind screen
Additional mass: 10 kg
Estimated speed loss: 0 km/h

Operation features:
- Throttle lever is inverted: backward = full throttle, forward = idle throttle.
- Engine is equipped with automatic mixture control system and supercharger with fluid coupling which does not requiring manual control.
- Engine RPM has an automatic governor with two fixed modes: 2200 RPM - normal mode, 2400 RPM - boosted mode. Also, it is possible to turn off the governor and control the propeller pitch manually by mechanical actuator.
- Water and oil radiator shutter control is manual.
- Airplane has no flight-control trimmers. Airplane is equipped with bendable trim tabs that can be set pre-flight by ground personnel.
- Airplane has asymmetric half-wings for roll-compensation: the left one is 20 cm longer than right one.
- Airplane has a manually controlled horizontal stabilizer. It should be set to neutral before takeoff and landing. Also, it may be used to trim the flight stick during the flight. In a deep dive the stabilizer should be set so that the pilot must push the flight stick forward to maintain the dive angle.
- Landing flaps have a hydraulic actuator and they can be extended to any angle up to 45°. The flap system includes a "pneumatic spring" which allows flaps to be pressed upwards by airflow at airspeed more than 200 km/h.
- Airplane has a manual tail wheel lock. Wheel should be locked when taxiing straight for a long distance and before takeoff and landing.
- Airplane has differential pneumatic wheel brakes with shared control lever. This means that if the brake lever is held and the rudder pedal the opposite wheel brake is gradually released causing the plane to swing to one side or the other.
- Airplane has a fuel gauge which indicates only the front fuel tank level.
- The design of the cockpit canopy does not allow it to be opened during flight. The canopy should be closed before takeoff to prevent damage. The canopy has an emergency release system for bailouts.
- The control system of wing-mounted bomb racks only allows the dropping of bombs one by one.
- The gunsight has a sliding sun-filter. There is also a back-up folding mechanical sight which can be used if main sight is damaged.



Pour rappel:
"And the iconic Р-40 E-1 and MC.202 Series VIII aircraft are going to be offered as Premium planes. Remember that our Premium Planes are an opportunity for us to build interesting and popular aircraft that had a presence on the Eastern Front, but not necessarily a regular combatant"
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168 ... /?p=231317

Intro:

The plane’s going to be pretty interesting, with it’s specific advantages and drawbacks. Both are full of controversies. Macchi combines rather moderate external dimensions of Messerschmitts and robustness of Fockewulf, aerodynamically clean centerbody but powered by an outmoded Alfa Romeo RA1000 engine...
Still, this aircraft will definitely have its fans, and not exclusively Italians. Primarily because Macchi has a tough framework boasting an all-metal construction (except the rudders) of the airframe and two-spar wings. If Bf 109s are known for their asymmetrical rudder profile, the Macchi’s peculiarity is asymmetrical wing panels: left wing is 20 cm longer than the right one. Those wings don’t have slats. Landing gear is generally similar to the one on FW 190, it’s quite wide and serviceable. There’s a stabilizer on the elevation rudder, and no trimmers on other surfaces.
Overall approach to the framework design seemed a bit surprising to me: on the one hand the aircraft is aerodynamically clean and correct, on the other hand both of its radiator cowlings look raw and ill-placed. Apertures in the canopy behind pilot’s seat are another questionable decision - both from aerodynamics and pilot’s comfort points of view.
Speaking of flying MC.202 I’d say that there’s going to be very few surprises to Messerschmitt fans. The engine is an export version of DB601Aa that was also used on earlier Bf 109 models. But unlike other Bf 109s in our game, this one doesn’t have a good old automated constant-speed unit. Macchi’s CSU only has two basic positions: 2200 and 2400 rpm. All other modes are up to the pilot to set up and maintain by controlling prop pitch manually. Water and oil radiator controls are manual as well.
In a word, just wait for this bird to appear in the game to test in out personally. And keep in mind - Macchi’s throttle is inverted

Speaking of the plane itself we can’t but share some of our observations, especially these five particularly interesting ones:
Macchi is quite a well armed plane. It’s to high caliber machine guns are surely effective especially for taking down enemy fighters;
A very good dive speed. The reference documents confirm that during flight tests the aircraft reached 765 km/h with no problem at all. This presumes that you can run this bird as fast as 850 km/h or even faster.
Surprisingly its G-limit according to the original docs is 15.6;
Impressive differences between specific planes within the same model and production series;
Quite peculiar construction features such as: different wing size, reversed throttle controls, a designated marker drawn directly on the sight reflector and a fold-out metal back sight to be used with it, etc..

Some more precise info on the engine operating limits:
 
Max power: 2200 rpm at 1.42 ata, 5 minute limit
Combat power: 2200 rpm at 1.38 ata, 30-minute limit
Max continuous power: 2200 rpm at 1.28 ata
 
Engine boost: effective above 3000 meters, 10-minute limit

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/176 ... pit-guide/

• Vidéos:
  
• Illustrations:
  [thumbnail]http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/m ... 478975.jpg[/thumbnail]
  [thumbnail]http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/m ... 478979.jpg[/thumbnail]
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  [thumbnail]http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/m ... 945343.jpg[/thumbnail]
  
  [thumbnail]http://sandgelb.de/hires_images/805_mc202cp.jpg[/thumbnail] (Pas BoS)
  [thumbnail]http://www.airpages.ru/ot/c202_08.jpg[/thumbnail]
• Manuels:
  http://www.warfiles.org/BoS/Manuale_Ist ... _C-202.pdf (24 Mo) A titre indicatif
  http://www.warfiles.org/BoS/Macchi_C-20 ... aSerie.pdf (39 Mo) A titre indicatif
• Topics d'intérêt:
  http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/155 ... iscussion/
  http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/135 ... hi-202205/
  http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/145 ... es-needed/
  http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/173 ... ect-mc202/
  http://www.asisbiz.com/MC-202.html
  http://issuu.com/icar2011/docs/macchi_mc.202_mr
  http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm
  http://italie1935-45.com/regio-esercito ... 02-folgore
  http://www.150gct.it/index.php
  http://300stormo.1fr1.net/
  http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168 ... ntry277066

• Biblio.:
  
  http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews ... p?rid=1524

[UF-hallacar]

j'ai attiré l'attention de Phoenix sur les munitions italiennes
et sur le belting des munitions
On se souviens que trop bien des munitions anémiques des avions
italiens sur Il2 avec des explosives inexistantes ou efficace comme
des pétards mouillés
on espère un meilleur traitement des armements italiens même si la 12.7 et encore
plus la 7.7 ne sont pas les armes les plus efficaces (à moins d'avoir 4 calibre 50 dans chaque
ailes )

[ClaudeJ]

J'ai rajouté pour info un lien vers une page du site d'Anthony G. Williams, auteur avec Emmanuel Gustin de"Flying Guns World War II, Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations 1933-45". On peut y voir les différences entre les 12.7 italiennes, US et russes pour peut-être mettre en perspective ce qu'on pourrait éventuellement constater en jeu.


(de g. à d., IT/US/RU)
http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

[voltigeur]

Un lien intéressant sur le 202 avec des photos pas courantes et site en français :
http://italie1935-45.com/regio-esercito ... 02-folgore

[ClaudeJ]

Chouette lien voltigeur, merci, c'est rajouté à la liste.

[Obelix]

http://www.150gct.it/index.php

[ClaudeJ]

Beau lien Obélix, merci.

Il y a une escadrille francophone qui vole en italien apparemment:
http://300stormo.1fr1.net/

[ClaudeJ]

Rajouté les infos du DD 104. Intéressant sa vitesse de piqué!

[ClaudeJ]

A titre indicatif
Unités:


Détail installation armement:


A titre indicatif

Pour les artistes et curieux (lien par MP):



Curiosité:

[J.j.]

Le petit résumé n'est pas précis à 100%, de mémoire deux MC 202 ont été perdus, l'un en combat aérien (enfin porté disparu), l'autre à cause de la DCA.

Et c'est pas la série VII plutôt?

[ClaudeJ]

Aucune idée J.j., je ne suis vraiment pas expert en la matière et j'ai juste posté l'image pour avoir les unités (squadriglia) sous la main.

C'est extrait de ce bouquin:

http://www.internetmodeler.com/2005/may ... _mc202.php

[phoenix]

Le détail du cockpit :



Source :
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/176 ... ntry278089

[ClaudeJ]

Merci Phoenix, c'est rajouté.

[PIPS]

La mixture est automatique. La roue du trim ne tourne pas, quels sont les trims actifs (tous ou bien juste celui du pitch?) .......voilà, voilà

[Obelix]

La mixture est automatique. La roue du trim ne tourne pas, quels sont les trims actifs (tous ou bien juste celui du pitch?) .......voilà, voilà

Comme sur le 109, c'est le stabilo qui bouge, il n'y a pas de trim sur les profondeurs.

Donc utilise la même fonction que pour le stabilo du 109, ça fonctionne

[sport02]

dans le cockpit le moteur fait un bruit de ferraille , le genre de bruit que tu te dis que le moulin va pas durer longtemps , c' est normal ?

[PIPS]

La mixture est automatique. La roue du trim ne tourne pas, quels sont les trims actifs (tous ou bien juste celui du pitch?) .......voilà, voilà

Comme sur le 109, c'est le stabilo qui bouge, il n'y a pas de trim sur les profondeurs.

Donc utilise la même fonction que pour le stabilo du 109, ça fonctionne

merci Obélix...............sinon, le reste : nickel chrome !!!! très stable jusqu'à ce que tu fasses l'erreur de tourner et baisser le nez à faible vitesse sans volets!!!!!!!!!!........et là, c'est rendez vous en enfer Old Chaps!!!!!

[NN_Elanion]

dans le cockpit le moteur fait un bruit de ferraille , le genre de bruit que tu te dis que le moulin va pas durer longtemps , c' est normal ?

Comme dans IL-2 1946 de mémoire.................

[ClaudeJ]

En plus des paramètres déjà bien connu de tous:

A titre indicatif




Voici quelques indications supplémentaires, en fait les paramètres selon lesquelles volent les IA:

MaxClimbCAS = 270
MaxClimbRate = 19.6
TakeOffCAS = 210.0
StructureAlertTAS = 730.0
MaxFlapsCAS = 140.0
MinFlapsCAS = 220.0
A titre indicatif
Source: .\luascripts\ai\caeroplane_mc_202_s8.txt


Pour ses skins, son dossier devra être nommé "mc202s8".

Au passage, le fichier "Planes.gtp" est nouveau. Il semble contenir les textures propres aux avions (forcément!) qui étaient précédemment dans un des fichier "Graphics*.gtp". Peut-être qu'on pourra bientôt modifier les cockpits?

[phoenix]

Attention au tableau fournis qui ne correspondent pas forcément à la série de l'avion que l'on a. Donc du coup, ces valeurs sont fausses par rapport à l'avion que nous avons en jeu. Je ne sais pas ce qu'il en est des valeurs données par Jeanmaterson.

[ClaudeJ]

Est-ce qu'il y a vraiment un manuel spécifique à la série VIII Phoenix?

[phoenix]

Je ne sais pas, et c'est le problème, car les tableaux que j'ai pu trouver ou fournis n'étaient pas pour cette série, ce qui fausse la base si on veut comparer.

[ClaudeJ]

Pour autant que je sache, ce qui n'est pas forcément grand chose, le manuel "C.A .670/ 2 ROMA 3 ° Edizione 1942 - XXI" posté au dessus et rédigé pour les séries IX à XI vaut pour la VIII qui nous occupe car il n'y aurait pas eu de changements niveau motorisation ou aérodynamique.

C'est la conclusion que j'ai tiré de mes maigres recherches et de la lecture des topics dédiés sur le forum officiel.

Bien sûr, toute référence est à prendre avec une pincée de sel et ce ne sont que des recommandations pour guider le pilote virtuel en jeu.

Quant aux chiffres trouvés dans le fichier caeroplane_mc_202_s8.txt, si j'ai bien compris, ce sont les valeurs qui guident l'IA.

[voltigeur]

Je me suis amusé à trouver la signification des lettres dans les instruments:
C : collettore = collecteur
B: benzina = essence
O: olio = huile
A: acqua = eau

[ClaudeJ]

Merci voltigeur!

Pour info:
- S: Sinistro
- D: Destra