Yep. Regardez l'historique :
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... on=history
Et on peut lire :
Vandalism by "Putinbots"
The page has been repeatedly vandalized during the last hour or so by ip users attempting to change the service ceiling specs so they'd be in accordance with allegations by some Russian officer who suggests it was a Su-25 that brought down MH-17. Maybe a temporary protection would be in order. Rocknrollsuicide (talk) 16:47, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
This changes appeared in russian Wikipedia after the aforementioned allegations. There they have been already subject to the edit wars, but only today, never before. This suggests that they are indeed intended to make specifications line better with allegations. This article is likely to be subject of vandalism in future as well.
(200.84.90.220 (talk) 18:37, 21 July 2014 (UTC))
And I have to admit to this whole edit was was probably caused by myself, as it started right after I commented on the Guardian's online forum, where I posted a link to the the page to back up my argument that the Su-25 is not well suited to intercept a passenger jet at 33,000 ft. Oh well... Rocknrollsuicide (talk) 18:50, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the challenged text and protected the article for a while to encourage discussion. MilborneOne (talk) 18:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks.
The Sukhoi web page with the specs for the Su-25 is here:
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/ Even if the Su-25 could climb to altitudes above its service ceiling - "absolute ceiling" - the laws of aerodynamics should tell you that it can only do so at the expense of speed, and the Su-25 is not terribly fast to begin with. Its maximum speed is only about 50 mph faster than the cruising speed of a B777, and when fitted with external stores it's even slower. A Su-25 really doesn't have a chance in hell to intercept an airliner in cruise, even if Putin himself were flying it.Rocknrollsuicide (talk) 19:09, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
This is besides the point. No matter what feat could be accomplished (or not) on the altitude higher than service ceiling, if some altitude have been consistently reported for years as service ceiling and still noted as such on the manufacturer's web page, that altitude and not some other should be on Wikipedia.
(200.84.90.220 (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2014 (UTC))
The service ceiling reported on the manufacturer's page is 7 km (22,965 ft) without external stores, which is exactly the same as mentioned in the article. So I really don't see what you're on about.
And by the way, why don't you just create an account instead of editing from a different IP address every 15 minutes?Rocknrollsuicide (talk) 19:52, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
could someone verify, that the quoted data by the manufacturer, which are, as the URL already proves, related to the Version of the SU-25, which is exported (SU-25K), are also true for the other versions of the plane? As this Page is already used for narratives on both sides, we should work precisly, as it is common, that exported versions are not state of the art and cannot compete with the original version.
We dont normally detail the specs for more than one version (in this case "Su-25/Su-25K, late production") unless for some reason it is a big difference and notable and then that is dealt with in the "variants" section. MilborneOne (talk) 20:04, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
isn't this somehow a problem in this situation? it is obvious, that this article is quoted in the thousands in the current situation, but the source for the claim, that the SU-25 cannot reach the claimed high, is backed by a weaker variation of the SU-25, which is not in use by the ukrainian airforce.
If you have solid reference for the existence of a more capable version being in use with the Ukrainian air force, you're welcome. Otherwise, your assertions are in the realm of the typical conspiracy website, which Wikipedia is not. Rocknrollsuicide (talk) 20:17, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
First i think it shows very bad manners to accuse me of searching for a conspiracy, where i didn't. I asked for precision. As for the Source you can simply follow the article to the ukranian air force on this very site. It states wich versions of the SU-25 are in use.
Ok, here goes. The Ukrainian air force uses the following variants:
Su-25 (no suffix), the original version, most likely "inherited" from the USSR when it broke up, and most likely the oldest planes in the fleet;
Su-25UB, a trainer variant;
Su-25K, the current production model;
Su-25UTG, another trainer variant;
Su-25M1, a modernized version, only one built;
Su-25UBM, yet another trainer variant.
Which of these versions might be the one with "secretly enhanced capabilities"?
Please note that a significantly improved service ceiling would require significant modifications to the airframe, most importantly the wing, and to any experienced observer such modifications would be clearly visible. If such a version exist, JANE would most certainly know about it. Rocknrollsuicide (talk) 21:24, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Details: Russians Scramble To Edit Wikipedia So The Kremlin's Claims Make Sense --Jaakko Sivonen (talk) 20:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
The airframe oft the Su-25 must be really bad. It has mostly the same power and weight of a Fairchild-Republic A-10 but its ceiling is 6.7km higher.--88.76.234.76 (talk) 08:17, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
It's not a matter of the airframe being good or bad, it's a matter of design tradeoffs. For the designers of the Su-25 (and presumably its users), apparently a high ceiling was not important, after all it's a ground attack aircraft. The A-10 has a much higher ceiling, but therefore it needs (and indeed has) a much bigger wing which makes for a less compact aircraft. Rocknrollsuicide (talk) 09:18, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
