Vol IFR - calcul des anticipations

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spiryth
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Vol IFR - calcul des anticipations

#1

Message par spiryth »

Salut,

Est-ce que quelqu'un pourrais me rappeler les formules pour calculer les anticipations ?
J'ai fait un training IFR mais j'arrive pas à tenir mes virage à 30° (j'incline souvent 45° ou plus) car j'anticipe pas assez :wacko:.

Il y en a 2 qu'on utilise mais j'arrive pas à m'en souvenir (à force de faire "au feeling" j'en oublie la théorie :innocent:) :
- une en distance, qu'on utilise lorsqu'on se met sur l'arc (par exemple je veux faire un arc à 15Nm, je vole à 350kts, je me mets en virage à ??Nm pour rentrer sur mon cercle).
- une en angle, qu'on utilise lorsqu'on sort du l'arc tacan sur le QDM de la piste (je suis sur l'arc à 15Nm, l'axe de la piste est au 176°, je commence à virer lorsque je croise la radiale ???).

merci.
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#2

Message par spiryth »

retrouvé après recherches approfondies :sweatdrop
Anticipation en distance en Nm : Vp/200
Anticipation en angle pour 90° de virage : 2Vp/3D
Reste à retrouver la Vp du F16 en IFR :tongue:
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#3

Message par Cat »

ah ben au moins j'aurai appris un truc ce soir lol
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#4

Message par Cat »

spiryth a écrit : Reste à retrouver la Vp du F16 en IFR :tongue:
demande à Deejay, il a un computer pour ça...; si ça existe encore ;)
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#5

Message par DeeJay »

Pour un virage a taux 1 (180°/min).

Pour calculer l’inclinaison a prendre pour le taux 1 c’est 1/10 Vp + 1/20Vp (si je me souvient bien !?) … Grosso merdo ça donne un 35° - 40° pour une TAS à 350kts a des altitude moyennes.

Et environ 30° à 250Kts TAS
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#6

Message par Mongoose »

spiryth a écrit :retrouvé après recherches approfondies :sweatdrop
Reste à retrouver la Vp du F16 en IFR :tongue:
La procédure sur cet appareil donne une plage entre 200-250 KIAS.

Petite parenthèse, toujours sur le thème du vol IMC, mémorise ce type de retour terrain, c'est toujours utile de savoir le faire, au cas ou ;) :


4.9. Airborne Radar Approach (ARA):

4.9.1. ARA Planning:
4.9.1.1. ARAs will be processed (référence supprimée par mes soins), Instrument Procedures.
4.9.1.2. ARA minimums will be no lower than ASR or TACAN minimums, whichever is higher.
4.9.1.3. IMC ARAs will only be flown in emergency situations or when the conditions in paragraph
4.9.1.4. are met.
4.9.1.4. Approved ARAs may be practiced when weather is at or above ARA minimums (as
depicted on the ARA approach plate) provided ground radar traffic advisories are available and
utilized during the approach or a navigational aid (TACAN/ILS) is operational and monitored by the pilot during the approach. If a navigational aid or ground radar is not available, ARAs will not
be practiced unless weather is at or above 1,500 foot ceiling and 3 miles visibility.


4.9.2. ARA Procedures:

4.9.2.1. Approval for the practice approach will be obtained from the controlling agency prior to
commencing the approach. The pilot will request IFR separation with radar flight following.
4.9.2.2. Fly to intercept the penetration heading prior to the fix, with no more than a 60 degree
turn to penetration heading, if possible.
4.9.2.3. Begin the penetration when over the fix, descend and level off at the altitude specified for
approach, or at 2,000 feet AGL, whichever is higher.
4.9.2.4. Identify the airfield on the radar scope and decrease radar range selection to keep the airfield
near the center of the scope.
4.9.2.5. If the runway or reflectors cannot be defined, continue the approach by estimating the
runway location in relation to the radar returns from the airfield.
4.9.2.6. Approximately 10 miles from the runway, descend to 1,500 feet AGL or local pattern altitude
as specified.
4.9.2.7. At 5 miles from the runway, descend to the MDA or local pattern altitude, as specified.
Descend so as to reach the MDA prior to the MAP.
4.9.2.8. Missed approach procedures will be as directed/published.



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#7

Message par spiryth »

J'ai bien vite retrouvé le 350kts TAS pour Vp (même avant mon post, d'où le ":tongue:") :innocent:.

Mais Mongoose nous sort le "200 - 250" et oui, je me souvient qu'on en avait parlé sous TS de cette valeur de 350kts qui semblait un peu élevé pour faire les percées proprement.
Merci pour la procédure ARA. Faudra que je le tente juste pour le fun :yes:.
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#8

Message par Mongoose »

spiryth a écrit :J'ai bien vite retrouvé le 350kts TAS pour Vp (même avant mon post, d'où le ":tongue:") :innocent:.......
.
J'ai mis en salle privée un second document qui traite des vitesses sur le type en IFR.
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#9

Message par Mongoose »

Petit up, juste pour répondre précisément à la question de Spiryth:

D'après l'AFI11-2F-16v3, le F-16 est CAT. E

Ce qui donne pour le F-16 en IFR, selon l'AFMAN11-217V1 du 22/10/2010 :

Maximum departure speed 300 KIAS
Maximum approach speed 250 KIAS
Maximum airspeed for circling approach 240 KIAS

les minima CAT. D peuvent être appliqués en F-16 sous certaines conditions, ce qui donnent en CAT. D pour les vitesses max mentionnées ci-dessus, et respectivement :

290 KIAS
250 KIAS
205 KIAS




Voici ce que te dit l'AFI11-2F-16v3 :


" 4.1.1. The F-16 is Approach Category E. Missed approach will be accomplished in accordance with flight manual procedures. Missed approach airspeed is 200-250 KIAS.

4.1.2. Approach Category D minimums may be used at an emergency/divert airfield where no Category E minimums are published. Airfields with Category D minimums may be designated as an alternate (divert) airfield. Further, practice instrument approaches may be flown using Category D minimums if VMC can be maintained throughout the procedure. Under these circumstances,
Approach Category D minimums may be used provided:

4.1.2.1. A straight-in approach is flown.

4.1.2.2. The aircraft is flown at a final approach airspeed of 165 KIAS or less.

4.1.2.3. The aircraft is flown at 255 KTAS or less for the missed approach segment of the approach. At high pressure altitudes and temperatures, 255 KTAS may not be compatible with published missed approach airspeeds and Category D approaches should not be flown.

4.1.3. F-16s are approved to use INS/GPS only for enroute point to point (Lat/Long) Area Navigation (RNAV). The enroute navigation period may not exceed one and one half (1.5) hours between INS updates. An update is defined as establishing a positive position using visual references or onboard systems. Do not fly RNAV approaches

4.1.4. GPS approaches are not approved for USAF F-16 aircraft."



Pour les départs trail toujours d'après l'AFI11-2F-16v3 :


"4.3. Trail Procedures:

4.3.1. General. During trail formations, basic instrument flying is the first priority and will not be sacrificed when performing secondary trail tasks. Strictly adhere to the briefed airspeeds, power settings, altitudes, headings and turn points. If task saturation occurs, cease attempts to maintain radar contact, immediately concentrate on flying the instrument procedure, then notify the flight lead. The flight lead will then notify ATC.

4.3.1.1. (USAFE) For all trail formations, flight lead will request non-standard formation from ATC.

4.3.2. Trail Departures:

4.3.2.1. Use a minimum of 20 seconds takeoff spacing.

4.3.2.2. Each aircraft/element will accelerate in MIL/AB power until reaching 350 KIAS. Climb at 350 KIAS until reaching cruise Mach/TAS, unless otherwise briefed. All turns will be made using 30 degrees of bank.

4.3.2.3. Upon reaching 350 KIAS, the flight lead will set a pre-briefed power setting.

4.3.2.4. On departure, each aircraft/element will follow the No Radar Contact procedures until all aircraft/elements have gained radar contact and called "tied."

4.3.2.5. Each aircraft/element will maintain 2-3 mile trail during the climb, unless otherwise briefed.

4.3.3. No Radar Contact:

4.3.3.1. The flight lead will call initiating all turns.

4.3.3.1.1. (PACAF) The flight lead will call the new heading and navaid fix when initiating all turns to ensure all aircraft turn at the same point (EXAMPLE: Viper 11, turning right to 200, 180 radial/5 DME).

4.3.3.2. During climbs and descents, each aircraft/element will call passing each 5,000 foot altitude increment with altitude and heading (or heading passing) until join-up, level-off or the following aircraft/element calls "tied." In addition, each aircraft/element will call initiating any altitude or heading change. Acknowledgments are not required; however, it is imperative that preceding aircraft/elements monitor the radio transmissions and progress of the succeeding aircraft/elements and immediately correct deviations from the departure route or planned course.

4.3.3.3. Each aircraft/element will maintain 20 seconds or 2-3 mile spacing using all available aircraft systems and navigational aids to monitor position.

4.3.3.4. Each aircraft/element will maintain at least 1,000 feet vertical separation from the preceding aircraft/element during the climb/descent and at level-off until radar/visual contact is established, except in instances where departure instructions specifically preclude compliance.

4.3.3.5. In the event a visual join-up cannot be accomplished on top or at level-off, the flight lead will request 1,000 feet of altitude separation for each succeeding aircraft/element providing all aircraft can comply with MSA restrictions. If the MSA cannot be complied with, the 1,000 foot vertical separation may be reduced to 500 feet.

4.3.4. Radar Contact:

4.3.4.1. Each aircraft/element will call "tied" when radar contact is established with the preceding aircraft. Once all aircraft are tied, no further radio calls are required (except to acknowledge ATC instructions) unless radar contact is lost.

4.3.4.2. In flights of three or more aircraft, every attempt should be made to use radar information to help ensure that trail is maintained on the correct aircraft.

4.3.4.3. If radar contact is lost, a "c/s, lost contact" radio call will be made and the flight lead will direct No Radar Contact procedures (paragraph 4.3.3.) be re-established.

4.3.5. Trail Recovery:

4.3.5.1. Trail recovery procedures must be coordinated/approved through the responsible ATC facilities and addressed in a local operating procedure or in the unit supplement to this volume.
Trail recoveries will only be accomplished at home stations/deployed locations where procedures have been established and briefed. As a minimum, procedures will address each recovery profile, missed approach, climbout, lost contact, lost communications and desired/maximum spacing requirements.

4.3.5.1.1. (PACAF) Trail recoveries are not authorized for initial arrival at bases other than the pilots' home base. Subsequent radar trail approaches at deployed locations are limited to two aircraft maximum.

4.3.5.2. Trail recovery is limited to a maximum of four aircraft.

4.3.5.3. Trail recoveries are authorized when weather at the base of intended landing is at/above the highest pilot weather category in the flight or approach minimums, whichever is higher.

4.3.5.4. Trail recoveries will not terminate in simultaneous PAR or ASR approaches. Recoveries to separate PAR/ASRs are authorized, flights will split prior to PAR/ASR final.

4.3.5.5. The flight lead will brief the flight on spacing, configuration and airspeeds. Minimum spacing between aircraft is 9,000 feet and will be maintained using on-board radar.

4.3.5.6. The flight lead will coordinate the trail recovery with ATC prior to taking spacing.

4.3.5.7. Prior to split-up, the flight lead will ensure that all wingmen have operative navigational aids and radar.

4.3.5.8. Formation break-up will be accomplished IAW paragraph 4.4. Flight separation will be accomplished in accordance with local ATC directives.

4.3.5.9. The formation will squawk as directed by ATC.

4.3.5.10. ATC instructions to the lead aircraft will be for the entire flight. ATC will provide radar flight following for the entire formation.

4.3.5.11. All turns are limited to a maximum of 30 degrees of bank.

4.3.5.12. Once established on a segment of a published approach, each aircraft will comply with all published altitudes and restrictions while maintaining in-trail separation.

4.3.5.13. Unless local procedures establish defined reference points for airspeed/configuration changes, the flight lead will direct changes by radio. When so directed by the flight lead, all aircraft will simultaneously comply with the directed change.

4.3.5.14. All aircraft will report the final approach fix.

4.3.5.15. If contact is lost with the preceding aircraft, the pilot will transmit "c/s, lost contact."
The preceding aircraft will respond with altitude, airspeed and heading. Altitude deconfliction will be established and a separate clearance will be coordinated with ATC. If contact is lost after established on a segment of a published approach, flight members may continue the approach, but must confirm separation via navigation aids. If separation cannot be confirmed, aircraft will execute missed approach or climbout as instructed by ATC."


Voili voilou ;)

Edit :

HOLDING

8.1. Definition.

8.1.1. Basic. Holding is maneuvering an aircraft in relation to a navigation fix while
awaiting further clearance. The standard no-wind holding pattern is flown by following a
specified holding course inbound to the holding fix, making a 180° turn to the right, flying a
heading outbound to parallel the holding course, and making another 180° turn to the right to
intercept and follow the holding course to the fix (Figure 8.1). The holding pattern is
nonstandard when the turns are made to the left. Unless otherwise instructed by ATC, pilots
are expected to hold in a standard pattern. The standard no-wind length of the inbound leg
of the holding pattern is 1 minute when holding at or below 14,000 feet MSL and 1½ minutes
when holding above 14,000 feet MSL. DME holding patterns specify the outbound leg
length. If holding at a DME fix without specified outbound leg length, use timing procedures
listed above.

Figure 8.1. Holding Pattern.

8.1.2. Course Guidance. Holding patterns have inbound course guidance provided by a
VOR, TACAN, NDB, localizer, or RNAV/GPS. While in holding, the localizer signal is the
most accurate method of determining aircraft position. However, if a VOR, TACAN or
NDB also defines the holding pattern, it‘s the pilot‘s option as to which NAVAID to use.

8.1.2.1. NOTE: AFMAN 11-226 (TERPS), states that the use of TACAN station passage as
a fix is not acceptable for holding fixes (regardless of altitude) or high altitude initial
approach fixes (those IAFs which are at or above FL180). This restriction is driven by the
TACAN fix error involved in station passage. Therefore, if the aircraft is TACAN-only
equipped, do not hold directly over a TACAN or VORTAC facility or plan to use these
facilities as high altitude IAFs. TACAN station passage can be used to identify an IAF
below FL180 regardless of whether the approach is published as a Low or High altitude
approach.

8.2. Holding Instruction.

8.2.1. Charted Holding Patterns. ATC clearances requiring holding where holding patterns are charted, include the following instructions:

8.2.1.1. Direction. Direction of holding from the fix.

8.2.1.2. Holding fix. The name of the holding fix.

8.2.1.3. Expect Further Clearance. ATC is responsible to issue an Expect Further Clearance Time (EFC) based on the best estimate of any additional enroute/terminal delays. Pilots should request an EFC any time they are directed to hold without one.

8.2.1.3.1. Example: ―Cleared to NIGEL, hold east as published, expect further clearance at 1645Z, time now 1635Z.‖

8.2.1.3.1.1. NOTE: AIM describes ―charted‖ holding patterns as ―those holding patterns depicted on U.S. government or commercially produced (meeting FAA requirements) low/high altitude enroute, and area or STAR charts.‖ Although the AIM and GP do not specifically mention the use of published holding patterns depicted on instrument approach procedures, in day-to-day operations they are used frequently. If the controller clears you to ―hold as published‖ using a holding pattern published on an approach plate, make sure you are holding in the correct pattern. In some situations, there may be more than one published holding pattern at the same fix. (See Figure 8.2) If there is any doubt about your clearance, query the controller.

8.2.2. Non-charted Holding Patterns. If ATC clears you to hold in a non-charted holding pattern, they will provide you with the following information:

8.2.2.1. Direction. Direction of holding from the fix.

8.2.2.2. Holding fix. The holding fix.

8.2.2.3. Holding course. Radial, course, bearing, airway, or route on which the aircraft is to hold.

8.2.2.4. Leg length. Outbound leg length in miles, if DME or RNAV is to be used.

8.2.2.5. Direction of turn. Left turns, if nonstandard.

8.2.2.6. Expect Further Clearance. Time to expect further clearance and any pertinent additional delay information.

8.2.2.6.1. Example: Hold Northwest of the 106 radial, 40 DME fix, 10-mile legs, left turns. Expect further clearance at 1725Z, time now 1710Z

8.2.3. Clearance Limit. ATC should issue holding instructions at least 5 minutes before reaching a clearance limit fix. When an aircraft is 3 minutes or less from a clearance limit and a clearance beyond the fix has not been received, the pilot is expected to start a speed reduction so that the aircraft will cross the fix at or below the maximum holding airspeed. If holding instructions have not been received upon arrival at the fix, hold in accordance with procedures in FLIP. For two-way radio failure holding procedures, refer to the FIH.

8.2.4. Maximum Holding Speeds. Maximum holding airspeeds are defined by TERPS and have nothing to do with the holding speed specified in the aircraft flight manual. Holding speeds in the aircraft flight manual are typically minimum speeds that correspond to a maximum endurance speed. Do not exceed the maximum holding airspeeds listed below. (Table 8.1) ATC may be able to approve holding speeds in excess of these maximums, if aircraft performance considerations require. Adherence to the maximum speeds shown below, or the published maximum holding speed, whichever is lower, will ensure you remain within protected airspace. For ICAO holding airspeeds, refer to Chapter 17.


Table 8.1. Maximum Holding Airspeeds.

ALTITUDE (MSL) Maximum Speed

MHA through 6,000‘ 200 KIAS

Above 6,000‘ through 230 KIAS

14,000‘

Above 14,000‘ 265 KIAS


8.2.4.1. NOTE: At USAF airfields, the maximum holding airspeed is 310 KIAS unless otherwise noted. At USN airfields, the maximum holding airspeed is 230 KIAS unless otherwise noted



Je précise une dernière chose, mais là cette fois s'agissant des IFR departure quant au taux de montée mini :



7.2.4. USAF pilots will climb at a minimum rate of 200 feet per nautical mile (200 ft/NM) unless a higher gradient is published and must always meet or exceed the minimum/published climb gradient for the runway used with all engines operating.
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#10

Message par Mongoose »

Cat tu as souvenir d'un terrain de l'AA pour lequel il y a au moins une procédure d'arrivée haute altitude en IMC ?
Je n'en trouve pas dans les MIAC :huh:
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#11

Message par Cat »

Une arrivée HA ? Toutes les arrivées se font en dessous du fl185 car c'est le plafond de contrôle des approches des terrains

Tu prends la moindre percée TACAN par ex et tu as ton arrivée HA
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#12

Message par Mongoose »

cat plombe a écrit :Une arrivée HA ? Toutes les arrivées se font en dessous du fl185 car c'est le plafond de contrôle des approches des terrains

Tu prends la moindre percée TACAN par ex et tu as ton arrivée HA
J'en cherchais une, si il en y avait, avec IAF au dessus de 14000ft. Sur des bases de l'USAF j'en ai trouvé, qu'ils qualifient expressément sur leurs charts de Hight Altitude Approache. Par exemple à ANDREWS AFB/NAF l'arrivée ILS pour la 19 droite est dite haute altitude et notée sur la charts HI-ILS RWY 19R, avec son IAF à 16000ft.
Je cherchais donc si chez nous faisions sur nos charts le même distinguo entre les arrivées IFR basse altitude et Haute altitude.
MIAC 2+ ta réponse me laisse à penser que non ;)
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#13

Message par spiryth »

Merci Mongoose pour les précisions :notworthy.
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#14

Message par Cat »

Ben en fait on arrive comme des salops, on se fait prendre en compte par l'approche et on obéit aux instructions.

La chasse bordel, quoi..... On n'est pas des transporteurs....lol
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#15

Message par Mongoose »

cat plombe a écrit :Ben en fait on arrive comme des salops, on se fait prendre en compte par l'approche et on obéit aux instructions.

La chasse bordel, quoi..... On n'est pas des transporteurs....lol
Héhé, ouais tu me l'avais dit que, bah, les chichi c'est pour les gros lol
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DeeJay
Légende volante
Légende volante
Messages : 17603
Inscription : 08 septembre 2001

#16

Message par DeeJay »

Mongoose a écrit :J'en cherchais une, si il en y avait, avec IAF au dessus de 14000ft. Sur des bases de l'USAF j'en ai trouvé, qu'ils qualifient expressément sur leurs charts de Hight Altitude Approache. Par exemple à ANDREWS AFB/NAF l'arrivée ILS pour la 19 droite est dite haute altitude et notée sur la charts HI-ILS RWY 19R, avec son IAF à 16000ft.
Je cherchais donc si chez nous faisions sur nos charts le même distinguo entre les arrivées IFR basse altitude et Haute altitude.
MIAC 2+ ta réponse me laisse à penser que non ;)
Faut checker dans le MIAC4 ... pour les chassous, c'est MIAC4.
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Mongoose
Jeune Pilote
Jeune Pilote
Messages : 1948
Inscription : 04 janvier 2009

#17

Message par Mongoose »

DeeJay a écrit :Faut checker dans le MIAC4 ... pour les chassous, c'est MIAC4.
Oui tu as raison, je ne sais pas pourquoi je regardais le 2 moi :wacko:
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Cat
Pilote Philanthrope
Pilote Philanthrope
Messages : 10737
Inscription : 30 juin 2008

#19

Message par Cat »

Super pdf. Clair, simple, concis et en français... lol
Qui a sorti ça ?

PS : font chier avec le QNH. Moi qui ne connaît que la DH et la MDH, faut que je pense DA et MDA maintenant......grrrrrrrrr
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