De l'utilisation optimale du 109.

[zxwings]

Sorry zxwings but i've lost them also. But I still have tracks with 109, better tracks

If you're interested, I'll be able to post them in ~10 days.

Wow! That's terrific! Of course I am very interested! Makes me excited, hahalol. Thank you so very much Faucon:happy:!

[Faucon]

Check the topic in 8 days (next week-end). I'll post what I've got there.

[Vylsain]

Ouais eh ben moua aussi je l'aime le 109!

[Faucon]

T'aimes l'abattre tu veux dire... quand c'est pas moi qui pilote

[Vylsain]

Ah non mais depuis la CF5, j'aime le piloter aussi!

[Vylsain]

Dites c'est quoi l'horaire idéal sur WC parce que chaque fois que je regarde, y'a que 2 pélerins sur le serveur...

[Faucon]

En général sur pas mal de serveurs, c'est de ~20H à 2H (heure de soirée d'Europe et des USA). Mais depuis que WC est passé en 4.09, ya bcp moins de monde dessus. Quoi que je crois qu'ils ont re-autorisé les mods.

[zxwings]

Check the topic in 8 days (next week-end). I'll post what I've got there.

OK

[Faucon]

Here is the pack (a lot of tracks, I take everything I've got so it's heavy). I suggest you to watch the 2 coops in priority, very intensive and exceptional fights (often out-numbered)!
If you have any questions, if you want me to (try) to explain you something, I'm still here.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AVH7KG3L

[zxwings]

Here is the pack (a lot of tracks, I take everything I've got so it's heavy). I suggest you to watch the 2 coops in priority, very intensive and exceptional fights (often out-numbered)!
If you have any questions, if you want me to (try) to explain you something, I'm still here.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AVH7KG3L

lolI've downloaded the pack, haha. Lots of tracks!:drool: Thank you so much for your kindness!!

I could not wait and have just watched the 2 coops. Really exciting, and I've seen many things I hope to learn from your flight. :prop:

:flowers::flowers::flowers: :flowers::flowers::flowers:

[zxwings]

Hi Faucon!

I've watched all the tracks. Really magnificent!:happy: Especially at those moments when you force your six o'clock bandits to overshoot and then you down them... As far as I know, very few sim pilots are able to successfully do this. I'm very interested in it! Can you talk about this let-him-overshoot-and-down-him skill? For example, how to control the throttle in the process, how to evade the bullets, and how to aim at the enemy.

[Faucon]

I've watched all the tracks.

Congratulation


For the overshoot, the goal is to loose our energy as quickly as possible to surprise the bad guy.
I often reduce the power to 0% before starting to move the stick, or at least at the same time. To evade, the must important it's the rudder. But it's hard to explain with words (+ I'm not so good in english).
I suggest you to watch again some of my tracks. Some of them where I'm using the overshooting tactic (there are more but i dont remember):
04-05-09 Coop JV69 vs OBT&RTA Chant des sirènes
WC(16-11) 109K Boom&Zoomed
WC(13-11)109K Overshooting P51&Tempest

Something very important during the overshooting: Watch your enemy when you're able to do it. To see the difference bewteen his energy and your. If you loose too much energy, you loose advantage. If you dont loose enought energy, he'll stay behind you.

[zxwings]

Thanks a lot for the informative reply:happy:.

the must important it's the rudder.

You mean rudder is the most important for dodging bullets? I'll remember that.

To see the difference bewteen his energy and your. If you loose too much energy, you loose advantage. If you dont loose enought energy, he'll stay behind you.

It's pretty easy to understand the last sentence. But I think that the meaning of the underlined sentence is deep and complicated. Could you say more words about this sentence?

(Oh, in order for you to explain things to me more easily, please use French words in your English if you don't know how to say certain words in English. I will easily understand what you mean after my dictionary translates the French words into English .)

[rollnloop]

The thing is: when you force your opponent to overshoot, if you have only enough energy to stay level while he can still manoeuver, you have just earned time, but you don't have any advantage. You must keep enough energy when forcing an overshoot to still be able to manoeuver enough and aim.

By the way, rudder is good for dodging bullets, but also for aiming, especially at low speed.

Final thoughts: the main thing is, in a fight, the one that can use his first shoot occasion to make a sure kill will win, even with a rated inferior aircraft. Faucon is very good at that, search also for FB_Viks tracks/vids, he was "The" legend at "gaming the game" a few years ago. For this you need training, training, training (talent helps a bit too i guess, but training is the key). Fire at very high deflection at your opponent, and train until you hit at first shot.

[Faucon]

Merci Roll, j'ai encore du mal avec l'anglais.


If you're interested zxwings, I'll make new tracks. I'll jump into a bad fighting situation, then use my defensive skill. It's the best way to show you many things.

I hope you'll can translate:
Pour être capable de maitriser l'overshoot, comme l'a dit Roll, il faut avoir une réelle expérience. Et ça prend du temps.
Pour te donner une idée, je vole depuis 3 ou 4 ans sur IL2. Pendant longtemps je n'ai fais qu'apprendre. Il arrive un point où il ne reste plus beaucoup de choses à apprendre, mais il y en a toujours à améliorer et perfectionner.

Le mieux pour quelqu'un qui débute, c'est de connaitre les règles de bases, et d'analyser tes erreurs en fonction de ces règles.

Par exemple pour l'overshoot:
_Surprendre l'adversaire.
_Adapter tes manoeuvres en fonction des siennes. Par exemple, si tu vois qu'il n'essaie pas de te suivre, tu t'arrêtes tout de suite de manoeuvrer pour ne pas perdre ton énergie pour rien. Si tu vois qu'il fait tout pour rester derrière toi, tu continues, jusqu'à sortir les volets s'il le faut.

En ce moment, "mon truc à la mode" c'est l'overshoot à très très très basse altitude. Souvent l'adversaire a peur de descendre aussi bas. Ca m'a sauvé en P51D contre un Ki84 par exemple.
C'est efficace! Mais faut reconnaitre que ça demande de la maitrise.

J'en profite pour exposer une autre tactique que j'utilise beaucoup:
Dans un combat tournoyant, tu peux aussi tromper ton adversaire en récupérant ton énergie "discrètement" pendant qu'il est en train de dégrader la sienne. Tu pourras ensuite en profiter pour fuir et l'engager avec l'énergie que t'as acquise.
C'est toujours facile d'expliquer le principe, mais expliquer comment il faut faire... c'est presque impossible.

Le mieux c'est toujours d'avoir la patience pour pratiquer, et comprendre soit-même comment faire.


Voici quelques règles importantes:

Ta façon de combattre dépend de celle de ton adversaire.
-------> Rien qu'en observant l'avion de ton adversaire, il faut être capable:
_D'analyser son énergie.
_Savoir si c'est un bon pilote, ou un novice.
T'adapteras le choix de tes attaques en fonction.


Connaitre ton avion et celui de ton adversaire, leurs limites et avantages.
Tu ne vas pas chercher à engager un Fw190 en B&Z avec un I153 ou engager un I153 avec un 190.


Si tu as l'avantage sur ton adversaire, rien n'est encore gagné. A moins que ce soit un choix, ne sacrifies pas ton énergie pour avoir le kill.

Si l'adversaire a l'avantage sur toi, rien n'est perdu. Gardes ton sang froid, soit patient. Restes sur la défensive tant qu'il a l'avantage!!!!!


TOUJOURS être conscient de ce qui se passe autour de toi! Souvent, celui qui t'abats, c'est celui que tu n'as pas vu venir.
Le meilleur moyen de se faire tuer, c'est d'engager un adversaire en tournoyant, pendant que son pote vient se placer derrière toi pour t'abattre.


EDIT: Une autre chose importante que j'ai oublié. BE SOFT ON YOUR JOYSTICK!

[zxwings]

Thank you rollnloop for your explanation! Very helpful .

I watched some of Viks' tracks long ago, which had been recorded during several (international) IL2 competitions and which I downloaded from Russia's Saitek website. I remember that he used vertical scissors to beat his opponents. But I have never found any of his online tracks recorded on a public server.

[zxwings]

If you're interested zxwings, I'll make new tracks. I'll jump into a bad fighting situation, then use my defensive skill. It's the best way to show you many things.

Yes of course I'd love to see more of your trackslol.

Thanks again for the reply! I understand 90% of your French after translating it by using Google Translate.

BE SOFT ON YOUR JOYSTICK!

The word "SOFT"... I gess it implies slow & small movements of the joystick -- but have I got the exact meaning of this word?

[Durandal]

I would rather say GENTLE here

[rollnloop]

I watched some of Viks' tracks long ago, which had been recorded during several (international) IL2 competitions and which I downloaded from Russia's Saitek website. I remember that he used vertical scissors to beat his opponents. But I have never found any of his online tracks recorded on a public server.

These are the ones i was thinking about. Never saw any track of him online, just fought him with little success

My most memorable moment was when our team of 4 were about the last surviving blue team, flying the 109F2, while he was the only survivor of red team, flying a Lagg3.

Our team leader was very reluctant to try to attack him in the "stick like glue" way, knowing his abilities, so we kept boom'n'zoomin' for some 5 to 10 mins... then one of ours became impatient... and paid it with his virtual life. Another went "to avenge his friend", and barely made it back home, while the last 2 of us kept boom'n'zoomin, with no more success... now one must remember that at the times (and still today for some people, if not the majority), IL2 sound engine did act as a "sonar", that improved situation awareness unrealistically, and it must have helped him against boom'n'zoom. Still, i was impressed.

Since i have a new soundcard (years ago), i lost this "feature", so i now get killed realistically


Sorry for the OT, now back onto it.

Experts (i have never been on a particular machine, but did not rank too bad a few years ago) tend to fight the way some play chess, that's exactly what Faucon describes here. And a good chess player has played thousands of game, analysing both his and his opponent movements. Chess books teach you the basics, a few advanced tactics for best ones... but you still have to play hundred of games to get decent at playing.

If you want to be a good hunter and have much spare time, go as often as possible in a "serious" dogfight server like spit vs 109 or zeke vs wildcat.... and once you get 10 kills ("rely" after landing is OK, of course) vs 1 death, then 20 vs 1, then 40 vs 1, you'll see your own progress with numbers to prove it.

First bag up the weak, survive the good; then pick up the medium and good, survive the very good, and so on....

No forum posting, in my opinion, can replace the experience and training, it can only complement it. And once you stop training, you still lose vey much, i dare tell you.

Now, when you're a master "lone wolf", you should consider teamplay, it is somewhat different, and very rewarding too

[Faucon]

The word "SOFT"... I gess it implies slow & small movements of the joystick

Correct


Yesterday a La5FN crashed behind me while I was flying very low and slow. It was funny Unfortunatly I forgot to record a track this time.....

[godzyla]

Ceci aurait été marrant, c'est dommage, nous nous serions bien marrés.

[zxwings]

These are the ones i was thinking about. Never saw any track of him online, just fought him with little success

My most memorable moment was ...

Interesting story, lolhaha. Formidable enemy. He or his team was the champion of a number of international IL2 competitions.

I used to fly the FW190A on the Spits-vs-109s server a lot, and, if careful, could perhaps get 20 kills before being shot down. But the 109's style of fighting is not as simple as that of the FW, and I found the skill of downing the opponet upon his overshoot is rather diffucult to improve even after a lot of pratice . Now I've read some enlightening words from you and Faucon .

[zxwings]

Dans un combat tournoyant, tu peux aussi tromper ton adversaire en récupérant ton énergie "discrètement" pendant qu'il est en train de dégrader la sienne. Tu pourras ensuite en profiter pour fuir et l'engager avec l'énergie que t'as acquise.

Unfortunately, Google's translation of the word "discrètement" was almost unintelligible. What you mean is to gain energy secretly, so that your opponent are not aware that your energy has increased - is that right?

[Faucon]

Discrétement => Quietly

That's mean when your adversary is turning hard and loose his energy, you almost stop turning (he will think you still want to turn) to gain energy. And then you can out-climb him, or you can run. It works in barrel rolling dogfights.
It's a little bit hard to explain for me, but I didnt see you have understood so it's ok.


I think I'll post some tracks I've done today or tomorrow.

[Claymore]

Yes zxwings, it's all right