Check-Six Forums

.:YODA:. a écrit :C'est bien pour les chaines de Dassault, mais je n'aime pas trop le fait de leur donner de meilleurs avions que ceux que nous avons nous...

OBT~Vil_coyote a écrit :Je ne trouve pas ça gênant, les EAU ne sont pas la Chine. Pis c'est la loi du marché "ma pauv'suzanne".
Ils ont de l'argent ils se payent le top. C'est ptet sur ce point que je tiquerai plus. Du moment qu'ils mettent l'argent sur la table... Ils peuvent même avoir un HUD plaqué or s'ils le veulent.
Suis sur que si le ministère de la défense avait un budget "open bar" on aurait notre rafale F4 ou -9 avec la maintenance et les pièces de rechanges qui vont avec.

mais je n'aime pas trop le fait de leur donner de meilleurs avions que ceux que nous avons nous...

.:YODA:. a écrit :C'est bien pour les chaines de Dassault, mais je n'aime pas trop le fait de leur donner de meilleurs avions que ceux que nous avons nous...

SpruceGoose a écrit :Je te mets aux commandes d'une Ferrari et Michael Schumacher aux commandes d'une 4CV... et je parie sur Schumacher gagnant !

Azrayen a écrit :Ouaip.
L'ASMP-A et ce qui va avec.

ironclaude a écrit :C'est une opération "Rafale mi-vie" qui se ferait à cette occasion et qui aurait du se faire un jour de toute façon.

El Doctor a écrit :Là, tu vois, j'en mettrais pas ma main à couper, à ta place. Les pilotes émiratis reçoivent leur formation initiale en France, par des pilotes français. Puis, de retour sur le sol national, ils sont impliqués plus que régulièrement dans des exercices avec des forces de l'OTAN, puisque cette région du monde regorge de forces aériennes occidentales. Ces pilotes accumulent une certaine expérience et je n'en serai que plus prudent quant à leur niveau de compétence.

El Doctor a écrit : Les pilotes émiratis reçoivent leur formation initiale en France, par des pilotes français. Puis, de retour sur le sol national, ils sont impliqués plus que régulièrement dans des exercices avec des forces de l'OTAN, puisque cette région du monde regorge de forces aériennes occidentales. Ces pilotes accumulent une certaine expérience et ...

National Defense Publication : May 2005

Gulf nation focuses on training, educating air crews.

Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates--Close to fielding one of the most advanced air forces in the Middle East, the United Arab Emirates is pushing to match the aircrews' proficiency with their sophisticated equipment.
This need becomes even more pressing as the service fleshes out plans for ballistic missile defense, improved command and control, and readies itself for the first delivery of 80 F-16 Block 60 fighters this month.
"In the end state, systems have to be very effective, and they become so by people having the right training and education," said Maj. Gen. Khalid Al-Bu Ainnain, commander of the Emirates' air force and air defense, in an interview with National Defense.
Therefore, aircrew education is gaining importance, Al-Bu Ainnain explained. "We have to build up knowledge, team work, decision-making and leadership. The human investment is very important." With approximately 5,000 members, the air force has sought ways to streamline its operations. For one, the service is paperless and works entirely in an intranet system, he said. "We do not need more people, but we need to become more efficient in the way we do daily business."

Service headquarters are at Bateen Air Force Base, in Abu Dhabi, but the organization is split into western and central commands located in the two most powerful sheikdoms of the seven Emirates--Abu Dhabi and Dubai, respectively.
The UAE is investing in its own training infrastructure, said Al-Bu Ainnain. Flight training is performed at Al Ain Air Base in the east, which is near the Omani border. In terms of novice pilot training, "we are self-sufficient," said Al-Bu Ainnain. "Since 1982, we have not sent any new pilots to train outside."
Education is mandatory through service life, and is linked to the promotion cycle, he added. Air force members enhance their capabilities and specialties by studying and training all around the world, he said.
In Al-Bu Ainnain's opinion, aircrews need to be highly specialized and be part of a "dedicated force." He said the service had a bad experience with an experiment called "super-crew chief," in which airmen were trained outside their dedicated field to perform other tasks. "Specialization is very important in the air force," he noted.
Working with the other services--the navy, coast guard and army--also receives considerable attention, Al-Bu Ainnain said. "Jointness in operations is a nightmare for all modern armed forces," he said. "We are struggling, but have done a good job so far, especially in command and control."
Even though integration is not at 100 percent, the UAE armed forces have been able to consolidate their war-planning processes, he said. "We still need some more time to perfect it."
With the purchase of new platforms comes the demand for added support, and aircrews need to prepare for that, Al-Bu Ainnain said.
This month, the UAE is getting ready for the first delivery of the F-16 Block 60 fighter jets, built by Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas.
The fighters are the product of a $6.4 billion contract that was negotiated in March 2000. The aircraft is tailored to the UAE's requirements is the most advanced version of the F-16.
Twenty-five of the aircraft are the two-seat variant, said Del Spann, Lockheed's deputy program director for the UAE F-16 Block 60. The final delivery of the aircraft is scheduled for 2007.
The F-16 Desert Falcon is conceptualized as a "fexible and powerful system for 24-hour operations, including adverse weather," said Al-Bu Ainnain. The F-16 Block 60 was specially designed for the UAE. "Lockheed worked closely with the UAE in what resulted in the single largest modification to the F-16," Spann said.
The Desert Falcon has a 32,000-pound-thrust General Electric F110-GE-132 engine and a new avionics architecture, said Spann. The jet also has an advanced sensor suite and a fiber-optic network. "The cockpit is brand-new on the Block 60," he said. It features three large multifunction displays, picture-in-picture capability and enhanced automation.
The Block 60 configuration is the most extensive change in the history of the F-16 program, according to Lockheed Martin. The unique features include Northrop Grumman's APG-80 multimode radar with an active electronically-scanned antenna and a forward-looking infrared navigation and targeting system. The fighter jet also has the Falcon Edge internal electronic countermeasures system. The Block 60 can carry conformal fuel tanks, and the two-seat version will feature a dorsal avionics compartment and a fully mechanized rear cockpit.
Lockheed has received more than $2 billion in foreign military sales funding from the U.S. government for providing training and installing all the weapon systems, said Spann. "Some are weapons that the U.S. Air Force and the Navy have been employing," he said.
The Desert Falcon will be outfitted with Raytheon's AIM-120 advanced medium range air-to-air missile and the high-speed, anti-radiation missile. Air-to-surface weapons include Raytheon's AGM-65 Maverick infrared guided missile and Boeing's AGM-84 Harpoon antiship missile. According to European conglomerate MBDA, the UAE F-16s will receive the company's so-called Precision Guided Munition--a family of standoff weapons.
UAE pilots currently are being trained to fly the aircraft by the U.S. National Guard in Tucson, Ariz., said Spann.
As part of the contract, the UAE also will receive flight simulators, he said. The pilots will practice in unit-level and weapons trainers with a dome-type visual system. The training systems will include many of the features of the U.S. Air Force F-16 mission-training center. The simulators will interface via local and long-haul networks, and will work with UAE's existing Mirage 2000-9 training systems.
The fleet of F-16 Block 60 will complement the 30 Mirage-2000-9, built by Dassault Aviation. The UAE bought the new aircraft in 2003, and also requested the upgrade of 33 existing Mirage 2000-5 aircraft to the 2000-9 version. The contract for the new and upgraded Mirages is worth approximately $3.4 billion.
Also a multi-role aircraft, the Mirage 2000-9 carries air-to-air weapons, which include the MICA multi-target air-to-air intercept and combat missiles, and the Magic 2 combat missiles, both made by the European conglomerate MBDA.
The Mirage is equipped to carry a range of air-to-surface missiles and weapons, such as laser-guided bombs. These include the MBDA's BGL 1000 laser-guided bomb, Armat anti-radar missile, AM39 anti-ship missile, rocket launchers, Apache standoff weapon and the stealthy cruise missile, SCALP. The Mirage 2000-9 aircraft ordered by the United Arab Emirates carries the Black Shahine missile being developed by MBDA. The MBDA Precision Guided Munition package also arms the Mirage 2000-9.
With the introduction of the multi-role fighter jets comes the need for trainer aircraft, said Al-Bu Ainnain. The UAE air force has been using the BAE Systems Hawk trainer aircraft, but currently is shopping for more advanced trainers to suit its supersonic fighters, he said.
The UAE's rationale behind buying the most advanced versions of the F-16 and the Mirage was its need to respond quickly and support its allies in the region, said Al-Bu Ainnain. He explained that these multi-role fighter acquisitions are contributing to the security not only of his own country but other Arab nations in the region.
The UAE is a member of the Gulf Cooperation Council, along with Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
"The UAE has a defensive responsibility with the GCC, which is to secure the lines of communications as well as ensure the security of the region," he said. "We have to be alert all the time, and also have effective aircraft command-and-control and infrastructure to maintain that immediate response."
Therefore, air-refueling tankers would play a pivotal role in ensuring the readiness of the force, he added. The service is in its final talks for a tanker aircraft deal, and has been reviewing proposals from Airbus and Boeing, said Al-Bu Ainnain. The plan is to buy three aircraft. "They are very expensive," he added.
The development of ballistic missile defense also is on the table. "We are in the final stages of our studies," he said. "We are just finishing up our requirements." An early warning system is part of a BMD framework, but the UAE has had to back-pedal as its intention to acquire Northrop Grumman's E2-C Hawkeye command-and-control aircraft fell through.
The UAE's fleet also includes Eurocopter's Cougar and Gazelle helicopters, IAR S.A. Puma helicopters, as well as Boeing Apache Longbow AH-64As. The force operates two C-130H transport aircraft, the CASA 212 Aviocar for light transport and the CASA CN 235, which is a high-wing, pressurized twin turbo-prop tactical transport.

This will allow detailed contract negotiations to begin on prices and delivery dates, possibly leading to contract signature by year-end.

Valkyrie a écrit :Oui en plus ce qui est sur c'est que la bas on ne manque pas de kero pour faire voler les pilotes autant qu'on le veut..

firag a écrit :pas forcément, c'est l'iran je crois qui s'était retrouvé en pénurie d'essence il y a un an parce qu'elle n'avait pas les capacités de raffinage suffisantes, alors qu'elle ne manque pas de pétrole.

warbird2000 a écrit :
Les EUA ont il aussi assez de mécaniciens pour faire voler leur avions ?

TOPOLO a écrit :l'efficacité globale d'une armée de l'air ne se mesure pas uniquement au couple pilote-mécanicien

la maintenance, je ne suis pas certain qu'elle soient assurée par l'armée de l'air des EAU sans un large support des divers fournisseurs

ce qui doit la rendre assez efficiente

Comme en témoigne la réputation des avions des EUA d'être toujours nickel-chrome.

firag a écrit :je vois pas pourquoi certains paniquent parce que les EAU auront des rafou supérieurs aux notres. il est pas prévu de rentrer en guerre contre eux.

on a même une base maintenant dans la région je crois ?

Paris Ready To Defend the Emirates, Including With Nuclear Weapons!

June 16, 2009 (LPAC)—The current situation in Tehran will awaken all the hawks that have been dormant since the end of the Bush Administration. An article in today's Le Figaro on the new defense agreement signed by France with the United Arab Emirates, while based on a true report—which is already very bad—adds a hawkish spin on that information.
The true bad news that Le Figaro reports, is that the secret clauses of the new defense agreement signed between France and the United Arab Emirates during the recent inauguration of a French naval base at Abu Dhabi, state that France is committing itself to use all the military means at its disposal to defend the U.A.E., were they to come under attack. "All military means" also means nuclear weapons, if necessary, states the Le Figaro article. In an attack, both governments would determine what "all military means" are, but France, of course, is the leader in this agreement. Le Figaro quotes sources who have read the agreement, as saying that it is even more constraining than Article 5 of the NATO, committing its partners to intervene in the event of an attack. Le Figaro admits, however, that this is not a full nuclear guarantee, just a small umbrella.
Indicative of the sources used for the article, one is Pierre Lellouche, a neo-conish National Assembly deputy whom Sarkozy named to represent France in Afghanistan. Lellouche stated, without the least fear of ridicule. "The strategic implications of this agreement are enormous. This means that we are making our deterrence available to the Emirates."
"The 'containment' of Iran has started," claims the article, using the English word. "Since Tehran has not given a favorable response to Washington's proposals for negotiations, the major capitals are now preparing for all scenarios. From Tel Aviv, Tsahal fighter pilots have been training for a year and a half in simulating targeting the Iranian nuclear installations. The United States is consolidating the deterrence belt around Iran through their military bases in the region: Qatar, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kuwait.... As for France, in opening a new military base in Abu Dhabi last month, and then signing a new defense accord with the United Arab Emirates, Nicolas Sarkozy has placed it on the front lines of an eventual conflict with Iran."

TOPOLO a écrit : Quant à la maintenance, je ne suis pas certain qu'elle soient assurée par l'armée de l'air des EAU sans un large support des divers fournisseurs, ce qui doit la rendre assez efficiente. .

Comme en témoigne la réputation des avions des EUA d'être toujours nickel-chrome